Electric Vehicles

Discussion in 'Technology' started by bfun, Feb 10, 2023.

  1. BEV HEV PHEVs. What are your thoughts on EVs? My wife's next car will likely be an EV and that's fine. For a long time I was reluctant to even consider one, but after a lot of research I'm ready to give one a try. Personally I'll be stickling to an ICE half ton truck because I pull heavy trailers over long distances and EVs suck at that.
  2. I remember seeing a Tesla tow an airplane back during their peak propaganda era. Anyway, I plan to stick with ICE or a hybrid until they get the charging times/availablilty sorted. My 2 concerns with EVs as a non-owner passenger:

    1. Alarming amount of charging stations error in charging power/speed. Almost everytime I've been to a station atleast one bay didn't work at all. Very annoying to sort in real time.

    2. Charging times are still too long. This is okay right now as a niche product. But as EVs become more common place I think there will be unacceptable backlogs at charging stations. They will need entire parking lots of EV chargers or 10 minute charging.

    I think we've gone from beta testing of EV vehicles to beta testing the EV system/network. I'm not a true believer so I don't care to be inconvenienced.
  3. #3 cmdrmonkey, Feb 11, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2023
    Sticking with ICE until the charging times are much faster. Even then, I don't know.

    I buy exclusively Honda vehicles because they're very dependable and long lasting. I don't know anything about the longevity of EVs. I don't think anyone does. They haven't been around long enough. Hondas can easily last 20-30 years if you take care of them, maybe longer. My Dad's 1991 Honda Accord still works. My stepsister has it as a spare car. My 2002 Honda Accord still works (although the transmission is a little janky). We keep it as a spare car in case something happens to our Odyssey or Pilot or for when we have family in town who need a car. We also just inherited a 2004 CRV when my father in law passed away. Works fine. Probably will sell it at some point. My wife and I are both tall and it's too cramped to be useful for us.

    Teslas seem very disposable. I've never seen anyone hang onto one for more than about two years. What do you do when the battery goes?
  4. The charging network was probably my largest concern and then my wife pointed out we've only taken her car on a road trip twice in the last 4 years. In our situation the car would be charged at home 99% of the time, at night, so no waiting for charging or even waiting to gas up. On average she drives 50 miles a day and at most, 150 on a weekend. Having said that, the non-Tesla charging network is pretty poor and is probably one of the major hurdles for people buying an EV. I guess we'll know next week if Tesla will open up their charging network to all vehicles.

    Batteries are designed to last as long or longer than the rest of the car. Tesla claims their batteries are designed for 300,000 to 500,000 miles. Total failures are rare, but costs to replace one right now is pretty catastrophic at about $20k. Most manufactures offer an 8 year warranty on the battery so failure is probably more of a concern for the long term second hand market. Battery manufacturing cost are dropping every year so replacements will get cheaper. Also, unless there is something like flood damage, there is the possibility to replace individual cells rather than the whole battery pack. I'd bet in 8 years the cost will be a lot closer to an typical engine rebuild. A bigger unknown than failure is degradation. An EV might lose 2.3% battery performance each year depending on charging frequency and speed.

    I'm not sure if an Acura is considered to be a Honda or not, but one of the main reasons we're wanting to get rid of our MDX is the constant transmission problems. MDX in general have a history of transmissions problems. We're at a point now where we need to flush it about every 10,000 miles to keep it from acting up. Also, the front right axle needs to be replaced and I've had issues finding the part. Getting the other 3 axles aren't a problem, but I guess the front right is a common failure point and Covid caused part shortages. Aside from that, I still really like the car.
  5. #5 cmdrmonkey, Feb 11, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2023
    I don't know that I really believe or trust a man like Elon Musk. Who really knows about that 300K-500K claim. I'm not going to gamble with 20 grand. Electric cars haven't been around long enough to know for sure how long the batteries will last, and the kinds of people who buy them (super rich techies) only keep them for like 1-3 years and then dump then when the novelty of having a new tech product wears off. I want cars that can last decades and that are cheap to fix when stuff breaks. Right now that's Honda and Toyota. Somebody else can beta test EVs. I want a proven product.

    As far as Acura, technically they're part of Honda. But you have to keep in mind that Acura doesn't exist outside of North America. Other countries don't care as much about luxury cars. Honda parts are cheap and readily available. Acura, not so much. Which is why I've stayed away from Acura.

    Transmissions seem to be the Achilles heel of Acura/Honda. The cars can last a really long time, but often have screwy transmissions. If something big is going to break or need maintenance it's probably going to be the transmission. Even then their transmissions can often hang in there for long periods of time despite being flaky. It's definitely an area they need to improve on.
  6. i’ve looked around a few months ago and decided the same as you guys. infrastructure needs to be more established nationwide. if i just lived in california and traveled around in that state, i would easily get an ev. that state is like decades ahead of other states for ev’s.

    but, i do drive over 1200 miles round trip to orlando and back to raleigh a few times a year so that’s a huge no to an ev for me, especially in the southeast US.

    also, like cmdr, i put a lot of consideration into longevity of the vehicle. will it last? if it does last, how seriously does a company like Tesla take repairs? will they consider the fact that they may have owners that hold on to vehicles over 15 years? will they still manufacture parts for repair for 15+ year old vehicles of their’s?

    there’s in-betweeners like Hyundai/Kia. they’re blasting into the ev space with excellent vehicles like the ev6 from kia and ioniq 5 or 6 from hyundai. as a manufacturer, they’re well more established than Tesla but reliability lags well behind honda/toyota.

    and fuck vinfast
  7. I'm guessing the MDX has a V6? Honda absolutely fail at their V6 automatic transmissions. This has been an issue since 1998. I will say, my old Accord V6 ran with a busted transmission for 200k+ miles. I upgraded to an Acura but made sure it was an I4.

    Pre-covid I would only consider Honda/Toyota. But with WFH I barely get 1000 miles a year. So I'm not sure the reliability tax on Honda/Toyota are worth it for people in that situation.
  8. Yeah the MDX has a V6 and before that we had a 2006 Pilot with a V6. Transmission failure had been one of the major faults with those up to about 2004 because of heat or something. The 2005 added a larger transmission cooler, but I never towed with it just to be on the safe side. Anecdotally, I had a friend with a first gen V6 Honda Passport and it's transmission failed, but I guess those were made by Isuzu. Another friend had a late 2000 V6 Honda Odyssey that dropped into reverse on it's own while driving on the highway. I think Honda fixed it for him even though it was outside of it's warranty, but he refused to drive it and traded it in.

    The tax thing is funny. After years of owning Pontiacs, Chevys, and Fords, we got kids and decided to step up and pay the Honda tax. We're now to the point of thinking the Toyota tax might be worth it. At least for the SUVs. If I stick with ICE my next car will be a used Lexus RX, but finding used low mileage Toyotas is pretty difficult.
  9. My ideal vehicle was a Toyota 4Runner 4x4. I regret not buying that instead of the Acura. But Toyota is going the CaaS route with subscription features so they are effecively dead to me.

    Toyota and Honda hold their value so well that it usually makes sense to buy new if you can afford it. Unless you're looking for 10 year old vehiles, good deals are rare. Except at estate sales where they want to be rid of the thing. Check the obituaries!

    Also, Lexus and Acura tend to compete with their "cheaper" badged versions. So the luxury versions of the Honda/Toyota best sellers have more wiggle room to negotiate. The savvy deals will be on Acura RDX and Lexus NX(?).