exactly what supersonic said :x I don't normally discuss religion (or politics) because the argument NEVER ends, there will ALWAYS be some hateful soul (like a few here... I know a few are just chiming in, or like me just answering questions, but... some of you are REALLY mad lol) that comes out of the woodwork. Just because you all don't try to 'recruit' me doesn't mean ya'll don't want me to change my views. Plain and simple stripping me of my religion is the same thing as changing my religion. Just because you all have no religion for me to change to, doesn't mean your not oppressing me just as much!! Don't get me wrong, I don't mind. I pick my fights, I know what I got in to. I'm just saying I hope we all realize what we're doing. BRB with some more of my 'answers'.
Some children have imaginary friends but as they get older and wiser they realise the 'friend' never existed. You would expect people to do the same with religion, we all know there isn't a god, I have faith that there isn't a god. Wouldn't life be so pointless if there was some higher being dictating it. Something I saw on TV really amused me. Of the millions of christians that have visited Lourdes in France over the years hoping to be miraculously cured by the 'holy' water there is absolutely no evidence of anybody ever being cured. In fact because so many people bathe in this water there is actually a better chance of somebody catching a disease rather than curing one.
If there is a god, then he's a pretty shitty god. Religion has no explanation for why bad things happen to good people.
I guess you get my example wrong (maybe I wasn't clear enough). My intention was to say that state atheism can possibly go wrong because there are such examples. The quantifier was "there exists" and not "for all". The misunderstanding probably comes from the fact that instead "what evil COULD come" I wrote "what evil COMES". To me it's interesting also - as you know I am not a native speaker and is it really so in English that when there's a sentence with no qualifiers then the default qualifier for it is "for all"? Now when I think about it, I remember having a discussion about it years ago with Monsly. Edit: now, when I read my previous post, I think I was clear enoguh, just because I wrote "accept [...] as examples". Anyway, there should be no "for all". It does have and you know it. It's called karma and although a completely separate story is whether you accept such explanation or not, it exists while you seem to suggest that it doesn't. neither do you have any evidence that your parents/girlfriend/kids love you but you somehow KNOW that they DO. faith is not something to be proven. How can you prove that you love your parents? You can't. You just feel it. How can I prove that God exists? I can't, I just feel it.
Monkey made a snide remark to this... but little does he know snide remarks is ALOT of what Christianity is about (of the more tolerant non-denominational flavor... and some smaller denominations too, not all Christians, but he tolerant ones welcome such cynicism... and really it won't go away, you may become less cynical or replace such cynicism with more specific cynicism, but your gonna always be human remember that). Anyway this 'stigma' goes back to sunday school. Your typical religious freak will NOT have much religious training (at least the ones dumb enough to get caught up in a religious discussion). Look, take 1 or 2 hours a week and compare that to a full blown class on theology?? No contest!! Quit pickin on the bathroom attendants and Gas pumpers out there ya jerks!! Like I said, Christianity is MOST accessible to a lower class of degenerates, not to say it's NOT for higher class... it's just easier for someone with little knowledge to understand. If you took a poll of 100 Christians you'd get answers very similar to the most 'embarrasing' poll of you know, American's intellect and stuff . because he doesn't want to?? One attribute about God is that he is just. Why didn't God save Osama Bin Laden from the wicked American Navy Seals? How is that different from saying why didn't God save the Japanese from their earthquakes and stuff? Circle of life buddy, circle of life. What I don't understand is how one can ask this question yet celebrate OBL's death. I'm sure you've heard of Faith, perhaps you don't quite know what it is? Well I won't get too far into it, if you really have questions you should really go to someone who has training, like a pastor or priest. But here is how I describe it. It's like you knowing that 911 will show up at your door if you call it. You can depend on them because it's their job, how do you know their gonna do their job? You don't have 100% gaurantee, but like it or not you depend on that. Now I'm sure some may have paranoia still, but... faith is just the lack of paranoia. Now given this, take paranoia itself! Do you enjoy scary movies? Why are there some thrillers that are better at scaring than others? Simply because some of the greater pure bread thrillers like Friday the 13th or what not inflict a strong sense of fear, a real paranoia, a grief feeling in that something really bad is gonna happen here. So, if you believe in paranoia, if you believe Friday the 13th might be better than... the stupid scary movie you saw on HBO the other night. If you really look into it there is more there than just the number of gory scenes. The world has seen more than what data can provide, if paranoia is real than why can't the opposite, faith, be real as well? Now that we've established what faith is I ask you this. HOW can you 'study' for it? If paranoia is it's opposite. Look, the more you study the more paranoid you get. Trust me, if you will lol (maybe that was the wrong words to say), why might you not think 911 will show up when you call them? Because you KNOW that the nature of human beings is NOT 100%, NOBODY (nobody with a body) can be there whenever you need them. And how do you know this? Because you've studied. Your knowledge has caused your paranoia to go up right? well it's simple chemistry where once the opposite goes up, the other goes down. Christians don't really want to study, believe it or not. When they do their faith, their basic beliefe in human nature and all things spiritual, naturally gets questioned and finally (usually...) thrown out. It's just a different way of thinking. Try to imagine a world where we really don't care how smart you are. Capitalism being what it is is LIKE the religion of American Athiests, in money and intelligence we trust? That's the only thing, Christianity is pretty much going away from Capitalism. Kinda funny considering what our founding fathers supposedly had planned. Anyway I opened up a whole new bag, I didn't mean to... but what I'm saying is consider Christianity like Bhudism or Islam in a way?? Certain things WILL be tough to grasp! If you still don't understand something I suggest you ask someone who is LESS exposed (and tainted) by the media than someone on the internet. Try asking a pastor, priest, monk or something lol. Finally, see how I used a number of 'non-holy, things you'd stereotypically think of Christians staying away from those things' such as cynicism, paranoia and scary movies? Christians don't like them, true, their a waste of time IMO and really are just an abomination (paranoia doesn't work on me as well as it used to... and if it does I just see it as a weakness, so). BUT you'll find these, and some of the more odder thing in church nowadays. Hey are ya gay?? Come ta church!! That's not something I agree with but some churches allow it, after all how are you gonna 'learn' (and by that I mean NOT learn... think of it as more a yoga chant...) if you don't come to church! Some churches hardly even get into the Bible and are more there so ppl can gather... tax breaks and stuff. Anyway some of the stereotypes are really off base. Guys like Monkey even would be welcome in church. I'm not saying he should go, just only if he (or anybody else) wanted to. Church nowadays is for everyone.
"neither do you have any evidence that your parents/girlfriend/kids love you but you somehow KNOW that they DO" I know my parents and girlfriend love me because they tell me they do, I have never ever heard a god tell me anything. How can it be karma if bad things happen to good people, surely if bad things happen to bad people then that would be karma. I love how religious people always come up with the same answer when the existence of a god is questioned. They always say they feel god or they have faith in a god, it's ridiculous. Just give us one piece of evidence, just one morsel of proof, you can't do it. Nobody feels a god or has faith in a god, they want to believe and they convince themselves what they want is true and voila they feel what they want to. The bible was put together by the Roman emperor Constantine, he decided which writings went into it and he decided what to omit. If we go back 2000 years we know that people were far less educated yet some people choose to believe the fairytales they came up with.
I'm not really sure if i'd call the japanese ppl good or not, their just as wrong as the talliban... just a little less offensive in a capitalistic point of view. what were you expecting... a unique answer whenever you ask that question? 1+1 will always equal 2 nothing can change that.
If testimony is your acceptable proof then I hereby testify that God exist. Is it enough? It isn't because God cannot testify for himself? Then what about my grandpa who died few years ago? Did he love me? I hereby testify that he did. Do you believe me? My grandpa cannot testify for himself so you have to accept my testimony or reject it. Do your parents love you? We can ask them and they will confirm. But we could probably find other people to say the opposite. What's the truth then? Counting how many people confirm the statement and how many people reject it? If testimony is not acceptable and you need evidence then you are nowhere. What evidence you have that people do love you? They respect you. They care for you. They are with you. They even testify they love you. But does it mean that they love you? Where's the evidence? You know my point, love or faith can hardly be supported with evidence. They hardly can be supported with a testimony. But that's all you have. Can I ask what kind of a proof would you expect to accept the God's existence? Should he descend from the heaven, meet you, shake your hand and that's your proof? Or maybe you meet 2 billions of people who believe in him, some of them could even say they've met him? It is a proof? On the basis of the common law. What kind of proof would be sufficient for you?
If God does exist then he surely would have let Osama die because of his massive sins against humanity. Is it just to sit idly by and watch innocent and possibly good people die from a natural disaster which God (if he does exist) probably started? p.s. I don't believe in God nor do I believe in an argument that could persuade to believe in God. If I meet God, I'll believe in him/her/it. I agree that this topic will never end.
I dont believe in God but i also dont know if theres anything higher then us, am just in the middle. But i do respect the people that do believe in it.
And Japanese ppl don't?? lol their as bad as Nazi's!! You know what they do to Christians?? You know what they did to Chinese? You know how incredibly RESPECTED they are to their elders right or wrong and how STUBBORN they are to admit when they are wrong?? DO YOU KNOW WHAT JAPANESE KIDS DO WHEN THEIR BORED?? Seriously they're as bad as puppies, who chew through shoes and destroy houses but get away with it cuz their cute :/. Personally I have very little pity for the japanese. I'd have more pity for anybody who was bereft over Bin Laden than many japanese. My God, however, has pity. They'll recover just fine. He is perfect, I am not.
What's your deal with with the Japanese? Did you get sewn into a human centipede and have a Japanese dude crap into your mouth or something?
close, I just don't appreciate crimes against humanity (and I'm talking mass persecution and genocide not just terrorist extremists like Bin Laden and the Taliban) in any way http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_videoinfo.php?v=175709 (I really like my Friday the 13th remarks now not realizing it really WAS friday the 13th lol)
That is fucking ridiculous. It is very reasonable to have evidence to suggest your parents love you. Likely based on observational data collected while growing up. Can you say with 100% scientific fact that they love you? Probably not. But very few things hold up to that kind of scrutiny, it can still be observed as fact based on preponderance of the evidence. However, there is NO evidence that god exists.
Why get so worked up over something that happened 70 years ago? Most Japanese today weren't even alive during WW2.
I can't even explain to you the importance of my heritage to me (being Chinese and Hawaiian... the importance is really handed down over generations). At least the Americans apologize for invading and ruining Hawaiians, but as I said even today's Japanese refuse to recognize their ancestor's mistakes regarding Chinese AND WW2. As far as I'm concerned that's just as bad as saying 'I'd gladly do it again too!!' I can't stand stubborn pride, call it a pet peave.
Hmm, I'm not so demanding that I need the fancy schmancy special Black Edition. I'm fine with Gun Metallic or Super Silver. In fact, being the low maintenance guy that I am, I'd be willing to take a 2010 or 2009 model. I'm easy to please. This is a religious blessing I can get behind. Umbasa!