Religious Studies 101: Islam

Discussion in 'monkeyCage' started by alterego, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. #81 cmdrmonkey, Jul 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
    The only people being ignorant here are you and monsly. Monsly gets a pass because I think he really, legitimately doesn't understand Islam. In your case it's willful ignorance. You know what Islam is actually about but are afraid of looking bigoted if you agree with us. Except simply pointing out the truth does not make you a bigot. And Islam is not a race. It's an idea. A very bad idea thought up by a very bad man.

    You won't even acknowledge or discuss Muhammad, the founder of the religion and moral example for all Muslims. You tried to change the subject to Jesus, who has very little to do with Islam. Please explain how a murderer and child rapist is a good moral example. I really want to hear this one.

    You are following your typical thread pattern of willful ignorance and cognitive dissonance. When something inconvenient like Muhammad being a murderer and a rapist comes up, you dance around it, and try to change the subject. Everyone is laughing at you because you are like this in every Apple thread too. Every Apple product is perfect and Steve Jobs was a saint.
  2. more pointless cherry picking. Pretty sure you could easily frame the UK and the US as barbaric and evil by looking at their history and also their present day actions. Not sure what point it serves. What do your real life Muslim friends make of your views? Do they mind that you frame their entire religion by its extremes and terrorist groups?
  3. I don't know enough about the ins and outs of that. I'm not going to go by some right wing serving summary. Suffice to say I'm sure it won't hold up to modern morals, as it was 1500 fucking years ago. Pretty sure the Old Testament has some pretty shitty things so all Christians must be evil.
  4. #84 cmdrmonkey, Jul 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
    One of my best friends growing up was named Caner and was from Turkey. He even said his religion was pretty barbaric and people probably wouldn't be very tolerant of it if they knew what it was about. I'm pretty sure he was a closet atheist who found his parents' religion ridiculous. It was actually him saying that that got me to really look into what Islam was about, and I didn't like what I found.

    Were you guys just assuming I've never actually met a Muslim or had a Muslim friend?
  5. Feel free to cherry pick and show me where in UK and US law you can be punished by death for:

    Sodomy, homosexuality, orlesbianism
    Sedition and Political crimes
    Sexual misconduct
    Waging war on God

    Is modern Christianity following the old testament laws?
  6. That's exactly right. Modern Muslims in the west know it's barbaric bullshit... they have the luxury of cherry picking convenient bits like everyone does. Enablers like altergo and monsly leave the less fortunate to be enslaved so they can feel better about cultural acceptance.
  7. Ah, so all the Muslims in the world follow the version of heir religion you outlined above? Makes sense. It's not an offensively stupid reduction at all. What do your Muslim friends think of your views? Or do you keep your rather hate filled outlook just for online banter?
  8. Time to close the bureau! You had a friend who didn't like his religion. Shit the bed, this is huge stuff.

    My point was what do your real life friends make of your outlook? I'd find it hard to maintain a friendship with someone with your views and I'm a fucking atheist. Fuck knows how anyone who vaguely cared about their faith would deal with the view you have of their religion.
  9. #89 cmdrmonkey, Jul 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
    This isn't really a view Monsly. We're just pointing out the facts of what Islam is about. I'm sorry if that's inconvenient for you. Sometimes the truth hurts.

    I don't see how we can defeat terrorism if we can't even admit to ourselves that the problem comes directly from the religion. The first step to solving a problem is admitting that there is one.

    Other than Caner I've never shared what I know with Muslims. Religion rarely comes up in polite conversation.
  10. Whatever dude... Most practitioners of Islam live in brutally oppressive nations. We cannot possibly know if they are peaceful or violent because they are too busy being oppressed. You seem to condemn them to a bullshit life because you're too chickenshit to criticize a non-existent entity.

    Comparing the version of Islam someone might practice in the 'west' is not the same. These people obviously have opportunities and options. This immediately reduces the need for a faith based existence. They also make up a smaller portion of global practitioners.

    Anecdotally, my Muslim friends (like most of my friends) are borderline alcoholics because nobody in the USA is going to kill them over it. They also know I'm atheist and I think their religion and all others are bullshit. I don't usually get into the nitty gritty, since it's all bullshit anyway.
  11. #91 cmdrmonkey, Jul 31, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
    lol, I think no bacon, no alcohol, and no dogs as pets would drive anyone to alcoholism is they escaped from it.

    My Muslim friends have been some very nice people. I actually feel sorry for them that their religion is so oppressive and violent. I hate ISIS sure. But the average Moe Muslim, I mostly feel pity for them. Supersonic said it best. Your average Muslim is not violent or hate-filled like ISIS. They are mostly just horribly, horribly oppressed, especially Muslim women.
  12. lol @ hate filled online banter... Ranting about shit I hate is my favorite pastime. I'm more subdued online because I'm too lazy to type.
  13. Monsly and alterego seem to think the middle-east is filled with citizens practicing Islam while living in a oil rich utopia. But ordinary folks didn't choose it, they are born into it. If some kid in an Saudi Arabian science class decides the criteria for Allah being real is not met, he is not free to accept that conclusion. It's against Islamic Law and can be punished by death.

    Those two overlook the trampling of individual freedoms to come to the defense of what takes away that freedom.

    Rule of law is where Islam breaks from other religions in 2016. The west hasn't governed by religious law in some time and we're actually moving away from practicing religion altogether.

    In the west people are choosing Islam, and very likely, parts of Islam. These are true moderate Muslims in my opinion. Given actual choices and a chance for a good life, they aren't going to look back at that barbaric shit.
    • DudeBro DudeBro x 1
  14. Hahaha…that's going to be your argument? That the laws/morals/customs from thousands of years ago (including child brides) are a direct equivalent to today? Good luck with that one. Why did Abraham think that murdering his son was what God wanted? Or that he wouldn't be punished by his own community for it?

    And since you're now claiming to be well-informed about both Islam and Christianity, I'm sure you're aware that the Bible contains multiple instances of God directing leaders to wage war, or even completely destroy certain groups of people. So your criticism of Muhammad waging war is both pointless and hypocritical. But then you knew that??? I guess destroying your own arguments is a hard habit to break.
  15. Another straw man. This thread isn't about whether or not people that live in the United States or UK think that the laws of Saudi Arabia are good/bad. It's about cmdrmonkey trying to argue that Islam and Muslims should be banned in western countries.
  16. I don't think so guy... the root of this thread is that Islam is barbaric and evil. What to do about it is open for debate.

    I disagree with banning Muslims, which is why I never mentioned it. Anyone who wants to get out of that shithole should be allowed with some sort of security screening. The issues in Europe are warning enough that there should be some screening. Choosing families over single men is a good start.

    You're the right-wing Quran thumper in this thread.
  17. Oh, I see, you're trying to make the argument that although you believe that Islam is inherently barbaric and evil, a security screening somehow only allows immigration by the barbaric, evil Muslims that don't include terrorist acts as part of their barbarism and evil? You guys are even more confused than I thought.
  18. #99 cmdrmonkey, Aug 1, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
    ISIS details in their propaganda magazine why they hate westerners and want them dead:


    1. Because you are disbelievers (Rejecting Allah the way they envision Him).

    2. Because you are liberal (Doing things Allah prohibits).

    3. Because some of you are atheist (Rejecting Allah).

    4. For your crimes against Islam (Transgressions).

    5. For your crimes against Muslims (Drone & Fighter Jet attacks, oppressing the truth of Allah).

    6. For invading our lands (Invasions & Foreign policy).

    Yep, sounds like a totally peaceful and tolerant religion. Alterego might want to focus on #2.
  19. #100 cmdrmonkey, Aug 1, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
    So the gist of your argument is that you believe in amoral relativism? So what the Nazis did was fine because antisemitism was extremely common in the early 20th century?

    I guess we should just accept everything and never pass any moral judgments on anyone or anything. Why even argue in this thread then? My Islamophobia is a just a product of the times in which we live and you shouldn't judge. Trump is a product of the times.

    Or maybe good and evil are not relative, and as humanity has become more civilized, we've moved away from just accepting blatantly evil, barbaric things like murder, rape, and taking child brides. And maybe Islam is an evil religion started by an evil man who should not be a role model for anyone. Jesus lived long before Muhammad, at a time when humanity was even more primitive. Except I'm not aware of him murdering anyone or raping little girls. On the contrary, he did things that would be considered morally good in any age, like healing the sick, helping the poor, and encouraging people to love others and treat them the way they would like to be treated.

    I'm an atheist. But if I actually believed in any of this religion bullshit, I would probably believe that Muhammad was a false prophet and his religion was the spawn of satan. Islam is absolutely evil and unlike Christianity has no redeeming qualities. It's just oppressive, hateful, and encourages violence.