Vegan vs Carnivore Debate

Discussion in 'Everything Else' started by cmdrmonkey, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. #41 cmdrmonkey, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
    How long have you been vegan?

    You still haven't told me how you are getting your B12.

    Living without a car is not practical in most parts of the US. Uber/Lyft have made it more viable than it once was for people who only drive occasionally, but it's still not very viable for most. The US is a vast country where everything is spread out. We don't have much in the way of public transit. Riding around on a bicycle on a major road in the US is a great way to end up dead.

    Grass fed butter is butter from cows that graze on grass instead of eating grain. It is extremely rich in fat soluble vitamins. It also tastes different and looks different from regular butter. It contains many things that are deficient in a vegan diet:

    Vitamin A/Retinol
    Vitamin D
    Vitamin K2
    Omega 3 fatty acids

    It's a very healthy fat that is a good alternative to something like olive oil. You're going to want to eat a lot of it when you inevitably get sick and come off the vegan diet.
  2. yep, you ride a bike to work/college/university if you want to die in the US. public transportation in the US is not even an option unless your city is built for it.. and that's assuming you work and live in the same city which a lot of people do not.
  3. Two practical issues with riding a bike to work:

    1. You're probably rich and live in a major city if it's even feasible.
    2. I tried it in college and you end up getting to work sweaty and unpresentable.

    Adam Ruins Everything did an episode of how sellout politicians killed public transportation in the US at the behest of General Motors & friends. States that invest in public transportation are seen as socialist dysotopias ruined by liberals. Coincidentally, these states also have staggeringly wealthier demographics.
  4. #2 is so true. Especially in Florida. I would show up to class drenched in sweat.
  5. #45 cmdrmonkey, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
    It's interesting (and a bit sad) to watch these people massively physically and mentally decline over the course of several years. Many of them look like they've aged decades in just a few years. Many are so emaciated they look like they just walked out of a concentration camp.

    One guy says people thought he had AIDs, but he was just vegan.

    I was also very amused at the guy screaming about not eating meat as one of his rotten teeth comes flying out of his head.

    The mental decline is also interesting. They end up confused and delusional. You see magical thinking. Many of them have the thousand yard stare you see in the demented and mentally ill.
  6. I made plans to start biking to work. It would have been easy since I can go all 8 miles on bikes paths. But then the wife returned to work and the kids needed to be driven to school and activities. I know several people that bike to work but none of them have kids.

    I'm also pretty sure I could be a vegetarian. I tried it briefly and it wasn't difficult. Veganism though. I'm not sure I fully get that.
  7. I couldn't imagine a world without meat, eggs or milk in my diet. I get vegetarians but vegan's just stump me. At least vegetarians can still get protein from eggs.

    Do vegans get full up on their food?
  8. #48 cmdrmonkey, Mar 3, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
    If you watch some of the vegan videos you will see that they have to eat enormous volumes very frequently because the food isn't filling.

    Fat is the best thing for satisfying hunger. Their diet has almost no fat.
  9. Dude. Green veggies, nuts, beans are super filling. In fact they are so filling, it's hard to get around 2000 calories without actually keeping track of your intake. I bet those dummies from the videos were severely calorie deficient because they were full.

    The exact opposite diet, Keto, has the very same problem. Fat and protein fills you up so fast you can get by on <1100 calories a day. But it's not good in the long run.

    You're full on very few calories and have to keep meticulous track of your intake and force yourself to eat closer to 2000.
  10. #50 cmdrmonkey, Mar 3, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
    Monsly seems to have abandoned the discussion. I'm hoping it's because he did some research on nutrition and saw that a long term vegan diet is a poor idea.

    That's wishful thinking though. The vegetable cult people seem to have him thoroughly brainwashed.

    Edit: I also learned that there are insane people who do vegan ketosis. That sounds like the most nightmarish diet I can imagine.

    If dieting was a game, these people are playing on ultra nightmare mode. The suck of ketosis with only broccoli to comfort you.
  11. Is there a problem with olive oil? I've been cooking with extra virgin olive oil for years.
  12. No it’s healthy. I was just saying butter from grass fed cows is also healthy.
  13. #53 monsly, Mar 8, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
    I take some vitamin supplements; always have though. I also didn’t spend 7k getting my land organically certified for nothing either; doing this has allowed me to eat food in a naturally foraged way, which gives you easy access to some natural bacteria that you need.

    When it comes to food dangers, what do you think is the number 1 killer in the US? Cars? Tainted tap water? AIDS? Eating fresh vegetables? Nope. It’s heart disease. Number 1 cause? Meat. Yep, those healthy fats are clogging up hearts and killing people everyday. You don’t need to cherrypick examples for this; just go to your local A+E ward anyday. I was chatting to a doctor a few years back after I co-ordinated fund raising for a new defibrillator for plus size people. They told me that 20 years ago it wouldn’t have been needed but the weight of patients keeps going up. I wonder why! Meat doesn’t only murder the victim; it murders the murderer too. Ironic.

    As for cycling being difficult, campaign! I helped start a ‘moustache dash’ race event to raise bicycle awareness in my city. It’s a varying race course each year that includes all kinds of categories (racing bikes, vintage etc) along with dressing up (waxed moustaches, Victoriana etc). Plenty of fun for a good cause even if you don’t race, thanks to all the other stuff various local auteurs put on (unless you hate acoustic guitars and slam poetry). Had a lot of converts to the Vegan cause thanks to my pop-up Vagrant Veg Shred Shed - if you guys ever come over, I’ll save you an onion coriander kelp parcel!
  14. #54 cmdrmonkey, Mar 8, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
    The underlying cause of atherosclerosis is chronic inflammation. The sugar that you vegans love so much causes chronic inflammation. Plenty of vegans have died of heart disease. Eating the right types of animal products and the right types of fats (Omega 3 not Omega 6), like oily fish loaded with Omega 3 fatty acids, lowers your risk of dying of heart disease.

    The epidemic of metabolic syndrome you mention is primarily being caused by sugar (especially HFCS) and starch, not meat. Prior to a few decades ago, people hardly ate much sugary, starchy, or processed food. Unlike fat which triggers satiety, the human body has no such trigger for sugar. People end up eating massive amounts of sugar and starch and still come away feeling hungry. A perfect example of this would be a bag of potato chips. Most people can eat an entire bag and come away feeling like they ate nothing despite having consumed hundreds of empty calories. If you took a look at what the cardiac patients you mentioned are eating, I would bet money it's tons of pasta, chips, cookies, bread, and cereal, not lots of meat and fish. Their diet is basically sugar, which causes both obesity and inflammation. They started eating this garbage because people like you told them animal products were bad for them based on junk science.

    Something we haven't gotten into is that vegan and vegetarian diets cause infertility. Cholesterol which is used to make sex hormones is not present in the vegan diet. Vegan men have low testosterone and low sperm counts. Vegan women usually see their periods stop. Are you fine with essentially castrating yourself through your diet? I would also speculate that this is why we have never seen a vegan society in human history. The infertility would wipe them out within a generation.
  15. I just googled your last paragraph’s claims out of courtesy and it seems, once again, to be totally misleading and, in fact, seems to show the opposite. If you have to lie to “win”, you might be suffering from meatheadeditis; a build up of type 2 globin-saturated fat from bovine consumption that clouds rational judgement due to impaction of neuron functionality in the semaglobus part of the brain.
  16. #56 cmdrmonkey, Mar 8, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
    Keep believing what your vegetable cult is telling you. The extreme B12 deficiency seems to be making you confused and highly suggestible. Also lol at your dumb comment. The brain is supposed to be composed heavily of fat.

    If your kids ever want to have kids of their own or you ever want to be a grandparent, they should not be vegan. No cholesterol to make sex hormones the normal way, nutrient deficiencies, and lots of pesticides and estrogenic shit in the diet seems to be making vegans infertile.

    Dude just face it. You are part of a bizarre dietary experiment being pushed by a whacky cult. Nobody was vegan prior to like 10 years ago. We are just now seeing what this diet does to people. The results are fascinating but also sad.

    Maybe the infertility is seen as a plus by the vegetable nuts. It's pretty obvious that vegans hate humans. Also since you're a nutty feminist maybe you see men having low T and low sperm counts as another plus. Your diet turns men into bitches.
  17. Do you have a backyard garden or actual farm land? Why do you need organic certification? Are you selling vegetables to others?
  18. #58 cmdrmonkey, Mar 8, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
    Who knows why vegans do some of the nutty stuff they do. His brain is probably so B12 deficient that he can't even give you a straight answer. His zombified brain probably thinks that he can't eat anything that's not organic, whatever the fuck organic even means.

    I bet you 20 bucks that monsly crashes hard with massive health problems within the next few years, followed by him switching to a carnivore, paleo, keto type diet. Vegans are like drug addicts. Except instead of being addicted to something fun like cocaine they are addicted to kale. You have to let them hit rock bottom.
  19. My garden is quite substantial; organic certification involves testing the soil for any man-made chemicals or harmful materials. Once certified, you can then sell your food with that label. I’m part of a socio-capital collective that uses a barter system to keep community support at the heart of trade. The leek crops I recently gathered will provide food for the shelter for the month ahead, 3 months of weekly tap dance fitness lessons for our family, a 2 metre roll of hemp cloth and a use anytime emergency call out from our group’s electrician. All that from a few seeds! Ethi-living is surprisingly productive and rewarding on many levels.
  20. Leeks are basically savory tasting sugar. Where's the fat or protein for the people at the shelter? Why are you teasing homeless people with malnourishing food that will just make them feel more hungry?